In search of an authentic aesthetic/genre/content-stream/sample pool of art
Indie is/was/has been/will never be dead.
I feel like ‘everything that needs to be said about indie music has been said’, and now modern music journalists are ‘on cruise control’, writing puff pieces and ‘insightful’ blurbs that make obvious conclusions about the ‘meaningless genre of indie music.’ Sort of like when ‘hipster’ articles were ‘big’ between 2k6-2k11. Music journalists and blog blurbers are important tastemakers, introducing users/consumers to new content/bands/artists. It seems like we/’the altosphere’ has hit a point where the most influential tastemakers must ‘dumb down’ their writing/content/presentation for the mainstream masses.
I feel like ‘indie music’ is probably better than it has ever been, because it has transformed into a corporate arms race. Much like we enjoy watching Super Bowl ads featuring Coca Cola, Pepsi, Toyoto, and Apple, we enjoy watching ‘indie’ bands like Radiohead, Phoenix, MGMT, and Arcade Fires battle for headlines and a larger/deeper ‘reach’ into a mass market of consumers. It seems ‘fun and engaging’ to view the ‘indie’ musicsphere with the same goggles that we view ‘pop culture gossip.’ It is amusing and entertaining. We understand that it is ‘trivial’ and functions as a mode of ‘escapism/warped idealism.’ We enjoy watching artists/humans rise, fall, live, and die. Along the way, we like to ‘laugh out loud’ at them/with them, depending on their public displays of self-awareness. The most successful indie bands have a talented group of well-connected creative individuals managing + designing their corporate identity.
‘Indie’ is what it is, and we must be strong enough to say that ‘there is nothing wrong with indie’ to break free from the shackles of indie slavery.
Here are some general conclusions/points about ‘the state of indie’ that humans/writers continue to make:
- We understand that ‘indie’ is corporate.
- We understand that ‘indie’ doesn’t directly correlate to ‘being associated with an independent label.’
- The definitive ‘indie’ acts have been harvested by ‘major’ labels and converted into brands which can generate digital sales to tween + cool dad demographics.
- We understand that ‘indie’ music has become ‘less independent’ over time.
- The ‘indie’ aesthetic has built a ‘meaningful’ brand that is now difficult to take seriously.
- ‘Indie’ bands are achieving ‘mainstream success’ because they are ‘a part of the machine.’
- ‘Maybe hipsters are a lil bit more corporate than they thought they were…’
- The ‘hype cycle’ is ’such bull shit’
- ‘Ppl dont even LISTEN 2 music n e more…’
- The album is dead
As a progressive mp3 writer, I feel ‘bottlenecked’ by the overwhelming ‘obviousness’ of these facts. Like ’so much chatter’ is going on around me as writers/bloggers/twitterers continue to try to express these points in creative + hit-generating ways. I feel like ‘music writing’ as a whole needs to move beyond ‘the elephant in the room’ of ‘indie being mnstrm.’ Since the ‘music review’ has become obsolete with high speed internet services enabling easy streaming/sampling of mp3s, every ‘review’/blurb must display some sort of ‘tongue in cheek’ type of awareness of ‘the global indie climate.’ We only ‘trust’/read the writers who ‘make this clear to us’ in the most direct way possible. Some people just ‘find solace’ in music writers who write about how the song ‘makes their emotions feel.’
It seems like there needs to be a ‘new spirit’/zeitgeist of alternative websites/journalism/blogging in order to move beyond the ‘indie era’ and find/explore exciting new music. There is a serious crisis brewing. Alternative websites will either lose their reach to mainstream gossip blogs that add ‘indie’ coverage of maltstream bands (indie.tmz.com or indie.perezhilton.com), or formerly-alt websites will become ‘mainstream’ sites that function as a deep namedropping database. Some people could make the argument that ‘as long as all of the best music is the most popular, we should be happy.’ This argument is not valid, since we have evolved into early adopter listeners who enjoy an mp3 70% more when we are among the first several thousand people to hear it.
Some sites can cross over into the mainstream as they continue to grow with mindie bands. Other sites must ‘go in a whole new direction’ and actively try to find ‘the new aesthetic.’ MP3 blogs that are already irrelevant hypemachine longtail blogs are generally already a ‘completely lost cause.’
What is the future of indie music websites?
‘Indie’ has become a googlable search term that bands/blogs/websites/humans must associate with their personal profile or webpage if they are trying to build a brand that appeals to people who still honor the term ‘indie’ in a face-valuey kind of way.
It seems like we are at a point where you can either have an ‘indie’ blog/site that is made to get mainstream hits for the next decade, or you have a brand that is ’searching 4 something more.’ I wasn’t alive in the early/mid-2000s, back when ‘indie’ was first exploding, but I imagine it was a special time where mp3s were still valued in the post-CD era, and ‘live shows’ were more difficult to find out about and therefore less populated with entrylevz. Websites who covered the initial indie wave got to come along for the ride, eventually evolving into better business models than a traditional 4-person band (websites can produce content easier than bands). Alt websites had the opportunity to ‘cover something special’: the evolution and growth of new artists who had a new aesthetic/set of ideals to promote. There was probably some sort of ‘genuine’ spirit of excitement back then, which was the foundation of the modern voice of the music writer/blurber/listener (who is now kinda snarky and disenfranchised).
I really don’t see the problem with the ‘indie music’ evolving into a monetizable model, but indie websites have ‘a completely different content/identity/authenticity crisis’ ahead of them.
I honestly believe that it is time for authentic blogs and webzines to either move away from ‘indie’ coverage OR make the bold decision to begin to cover ‘all pop culture elements’ using their voice that they believe readers ‘love’. It seems to make sense that an ‘indie music fan’ might want a ‘pop culture’ dose’ blurbed about in the familiar voice of the standard ‘bro who is pumped about a new release’, a very common voice deployed by many popular indie music websites. I would like to hear that same ‘pumped bro’ voice get jacked up about a new Paris Hilton upskirt shot or maybe have a bro’s perspective on the Heidi Montag surgery.
If the large ‘indie’ music sites don’t generalize their blog/content into ‘culture hubs’ [via pop culture coverage], they run the risk of moving into direct competition with music recommendation websites + communities. The ‘technological ones’ such as Pandora, lala, iTunes, last.fm, and whatever other site that a larger web company recently acquired. Wonder if ‘algorithmic recommendation’ will eventually ‘kill’ music websites, and there will be the same sympathy for music reviews sites that people feel for record stores. Like one day, when our kids tell us that they just ‘listen to their auto-generated recommendations to find new music’, we will tell them that ‘back in the day, we used to go to websites that manually updated who they thought we should listen 2.’ Not sure how long the ‘indie coverage’ niche will last.
The unification of ‘pop culture consumption’ and ‘indie consumption’ under the same umbrella will make it easier to move forward in the authentic pursuit of ‘the best new music on the planet.’
Taking the best elements of indie, and moving forward with them into the new era.
It seems like ’self-respecting’ fans who are in the pursuit of authentic music no longer want to say that they listen to ‘indie music’ because of the complexity of that genre label by moderately aware people. Listing ‘indie’ in your Favorite Music section on facebook could make you the laughing stock of your social network. Listing varied ‘indie’ subgenres can make you seem pretentious. No1 can win because no1 can list what they truly like.
I think most humans want 2 feel excited about music, but feel like there are issues that make the presentation/discussion/sharing of music ‘more complex’ than ever before.
It seems fair to assume that we are looking for music that is 1) ‘good’, 2) new AND 3) created by relatively unknown band/human who has an approachable backstory that makes us believe we can ‘make it’ if we dream. It seems ‘impossible’ to expect a widely read alternative website to write/post/blog about a band that could meet all three of these criteria. It seems like by harvesting buzz bands, large maltstream sites are only looking to perpetuate the ‘indie aesthetic’ because they are plugged into a ‘the machine.’ Consumers can no longer trust these new bands as recommended by large sites because of the context/scale by which they are presented.
It is clear that we are in the thick of an era of perpetuation. I think that there are established models of success and monetization that ‘bands that are trying to be indie’ attempt to replicate. It seems like ‘looking like ur in an indie band’ is sort of a updated version of ‘looking like ur in a rock star.’ The concept of ‘looking like you are in an indie band’ means that you no longer seek widespread fame and fortune, but instead would settle for acceptance by a moderate sized group of people who are aware of cutting edge culture. Honestly feel like we’re at the point where ‘indie bands’ are manufactured in the same way that Lou Pearlman manufactured NSYNC/BSB/O-Town during the boy band era.
It is up to the consumer to let go of our previous expectations of bands. The mass market will lag behind, but the micromarket is what drives the ‘authentic creative types.’ They know that if there is a receptive market, they will ‘go 2 work.’
We no longer want carbon copies of ‘indie bands’.
We are searching for something ternative.
/////////
The Final Solution
////////
Welcome to the Ternative Era.
//////////
Those who are in search of ‘good, new, authentic’ music will move forward into the Ternative Era.
We will listen to ternative music. Ternative is the only way we can ‘embrace indie for what it is’ and differentiate music/aesthetics in the immediate future. All we really needed was a ‘new term’ by which we could differentiate music
Will you take my hand, and transform into a ternative bro with me? (Ternative is already inside of u).
WTF is ternative?
As we enter the post-Vampy Weekend #1 album in the World era, we must mentally prepare ourselves’ for this ‘charting’ phenomenon 3-5 more times in the next year. It seems like when a band ‘charts’ in the top 10 upon their album release, we should call them “MINDIE” bands, short for Mainstream INDIE. I feel like the term ‘indie’ could be relegated to shitty bands who perpetuate the ‘trying 2 be earnest’ indie aesthetic from the mid-2k0s. Sort of like bros who make a decent product, but don’t really ‘get’ why their music will never reach more than several thousand fans.
Some ternative music already exists, but the ternative era will really be prevalent between 2k10.5-2k11.75. It might be a microtrend ‘frowned down upon’ by music purists, sort of like blog house. It will be an enjoyable era where music will be fun/chill, and the expectations of turning a band into a mindie sensation will be removed. Ternative bands will exist, and they will be largely untainted by huge marketing campaigns and gimmicky music videos meant to inspire coverage/social network sharing.
TERNATIVE VS. INDIE EXAMPLES
Part of me wonders if the popular post-indie band Animal Collective were the forefathers of the ternative era. It seems like bloggers would be ‘divided’ about whether they are ‘indie.’ They seem ‘very plugged into the indie machine’, but most bloggers would probably just write a piece about them called ‘The New Indie.’ Feel like that will probably happen in their next album cycle.
I feel like ‘ternative’ music will probably be pretty sample based. Traditional instruments are discouraged. (Indie will always be tied to ‘indie ROCK’, which requires guitars, thereby being more accessible to mainstreamers). The live experience is not required. Unique content besides mp3s would be ‘welcomed’ as long as it wasn’t gimmicky.
Here are some progressive thoughts/statements by which we can begin to think about the ternative era.
- Animal Collective was the first ternative band, shattering the mold of successful indie bands
- Ternative music will never appeal to tweens because __________.
- Chill wave artists have the opportunity to either ‘plugin to the indie machine’ or move forward into the ternative era.
- My favorite ternative website is ______________.
- Gorilla Vs. Bear is generally the breeding ground for ternative artists, but some of the recommendations are too reverby/not poppy enough for me. These selections are possibly too post-ternative for me, the mainstream ternative listener.
- I am tired of maltstream music sites trying to turn ternative artists into indie artists. They are setting them up to fail.
- Ternative bands have a shelf life of 1.5 mp3s, but that is okay for me, because they are not overtly ‘trying 2 be indie.’
- Female bands continued to be indie until 2k12, when the first all-female ternative band was formed. They were weird lesbians.
- Never will I ever pay for a ternative mp3. I might impulse buy a limited release vinyl.
- I still listen to indie music, but only on the radio. I also put indie music on mix CDs to impress girls, but eventually introduce them to ternative music if they really ‘get’ me.
- Deerhunter/Atlas sound is an indie band trying to be ternative sometimes.
- Vampire Weekend’s next album will be predominantly indie, with a few allusions to the current ternative movement.
- Arcade Fire has written the mindie album of the century.
- Many music fans were ‘let down’ by the Beach House album because they didn’t know if it was trying to be indie or trying to be ternative.
- Washed Out’s career was redefined when he decided to focus on being an indie/ternative artist.
I feel like ‘ternative’ has been alive for a while, but we haven’t really had a way to properly ingest it, since we expect everything that is moderately good to evolve into a Mindie band.
Ternative is a term/genre name that I have reserved as a descriptive term for music that I consider to be authentic.
We keep on waiting
Waiting on a ternative band 2 come
What will happen 2 indie?
I’m sure every one had a ‘very shitty’ local music scene in their hometown during high school. Sort of like your friend’s shitty band who you had to see play once every month. I think ‘indie’ is probably the term that this high school generation will associate with those shitty acts.
Indie will live on. It is a cute lil term that was made for mainstream success. We can let it be mainstream, and continue to consume it in the same way that we consume the mainstreamest aspects of life.
Still feel like I am ‘waiting’ on a new band to emerge in 2k10, but I feel like the next band to get excited about won’t be ‘just another indie band.’ They will be a Ternative band, ready to help carve our expectations and desires from a band in the post-indie world.
Feels good to move past indie. Like my ears are unplugged, unearbudded, & open. Ready 2 listen 2 music again.
During the indie era, ppl ‘listened with their hearts’ until the heart became 2 cliched, kinda like this pic.
In the ternative era, listeners will approach music with an informed mind.
R u ready 4 Ternative Music?
How do u feel about the proposed ternative era?
Is ‘ternative’ a ‘dumb’/’silly’ enough genre name to ‘catch on’ [via the shoegaze theory]?
What qualities of ‘ternative’ will prevent it from going mainstream?
Do ternative websites have a ‘ceiling’?
Who will be the biggest mindie band of the next decade?
Is mindie the new bro rock?
What’s ur least fave kind of music journalism?
What is the future of the mega-indie blog/website?
What is a good business+content focus strategy for a formerly indie blog in the 2k10 decade?
Is the ultimate goal of every website just to get ‘mad hits at any cost’? Does this goal work against the music discovery process?
What’s ur fave band?
What kind of music do u listen 2?
What’s ur fave music website?
Will twiter die/overtake the internet?
Does ur brain/heart feel free now that u have moved beyond the indie era?
Has any1 figured out what ‘alternative rock’ means yet?
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112 Comments
1st??
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//////////Reply by TripStar
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 11:32 am
@TripStar, teee heee
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//////////Reply by Scott Curtis
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 7:05 pm
This will never catch on because there are too many ideas crammed into this post. When you ‘invented’ chillwave it was simple to understand. This is not.
I get what ternative is but really it could have been called long-tail or alt(ernative) or continue to be indie. It’s the same no matter what you call it you are just trying to distinguish your taste and remain cutting edge.
But in 3.5-5 years, if this were to catch on, it too would become too adopted and mainstream and then you would need another term so here you are three levels deep but still describing the same music you were at the beginning. So really what you call it doesn’t matter unless you find it very important for your personal brand to remain ahead of the curve (which really just means identifying with niche things be it clothes, music, film, etc).
So in the end you have to ask yourself, is creating names for things, and identifying yourself as being aligned with these things important enough that you will continue to do so your entire life? Because if not you eventually appear to be a mainstreamer. But if you do you end up being an old guy who stayed way too long at the party.
In the words of the eternal poet lil wayne, “just be you.”
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//////////Reply by HOMOSAPIEN_FUCK
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:53 pm
@Scott Curtis, True, seems like carles wants to be credited with ‘bringing’ in the death of indie.
Kewl CRLS.. way ahead of the crowd.
//////////Reply by strato
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:57 pm
@Scott Curtis,
way to ’show up late’ and ‘make your comment appear at the top.’ i’m not sure your message was as worth reading as you think it was.
//////////Reply by NoScott,No
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 10:06 pm
@Scott Curtis, you don’t “get it.” you’re still in the “indie” mindset. when the first Ternative band get an mp3 blogged about on GVSB, you’ll just “know.”
//////////Reply by Banana
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
@Scott Curtis,
Love your blog – really, really on point – so true that “This is what your friends will be into six months from now. ”
Also love the way you post leaks that are fake!
//////////Reply by Nathan
//////////Posted February 21st, 2010 at 8:00 pm
This article is ironic because it tries hard by not putting the words into its own mouth with the apostrophes. You abstract what is said about indie music as well as what is mainstream. This is all loaded.
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//////////Reply by jesse
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 8:29 pm
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ternative
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//////////Reply by Ernest
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Die Antwoord is a ternative band.
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//////////Reply by Sam
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
@Ernest, Is this “ternative?”
http://vimeo.com/9238571
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//////////Reply by fullscale008
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
@TripStar, ternative is way reptilian. sounds uggs like “cunt.”
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//////////Reply by Evantroll
//////////Posted February 11th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
@TripStar, The fall of ‘indie’ begun long ago. don’t know bout’ turnative. i just listen to fuckin music
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first! luv ya carles :P
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this must have taken long to write crls
Reply
//////////Reply by Frenger
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 11:51 am
@agg b.,
Just what I thought!
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//////////Reply by agg b.
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 6:21 pm
@Frenger, we always thought alike
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I’m still not sure whats being said here. Is ‘ternative’ music just what ‘indie’ music was but renamed because ‘indie’ is now a MNSTRM brand? Or is it a new genre altogether that will replace the ‘authenticity’ of what ‘indie’ used to bring to the scene?
If so, it was only a matter of time b/c thats what big record labels/media outlets/clothing designers do, find a ‘unique’ subculture that will allow people to join and ‘feel accepted’ while being ‘unique’[via hippies, punk rock, rap, 'indie-ans']
Ternative is the new subculture?
Is it possible to be ‘authentic’ while technology provides so much ability to be ‘unique’ that everyone becomes ‘unique’ while also ‘feeding the machine’?
Can we/should we give up?
Plz explain below.
Reply
//////////Reply by fuck
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@Kikkoman, REPOSTING THIS SHIT FURTHER UP THE COMMENTCHAIN [via 'being asked to']
” this blgpost/ ’state f the intrnet union’ is correct and pertinent, but the prime mover term ‘ternative’ is unacceptable, just as ‘mindie’ is too ‘kewtsy/faggy’–greatly preferred ‘maltstream’
‘little bit baffling’ tht carly invented such a bulshit term as his focus–prolly hubris derived from the maltstream acceptance of ‘chillwave’ as a descriptor
feel a lil ‘reneged on’ via the genreshirt’s westcoasty nihilistic treatment of textual signifiers of musicsounds coupled with this ‘topdown selfconscious zeitgeistproducing’
REJECT IRRITATING/UN-APT SIGNIFIERS, YALL ”
oh and also to address yr question directly, yes you shhould ‘give up,’ authenticity is inauthentic, maltstrm 4evr, shoutout to numba 1 sellrs vamp ‘new found glry’ week
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//////////Reply by fuck
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 3:58 pm
@fuck,
DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW, BRO
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//////////Reply by Ternugay
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
@fuck, Alasteir Crowley is in hell now. how sad.
//////////Reply by mat
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 4:57 pm
@Kikkoman, indie (2k) = alternative (90s) = new wave (80s). S’all marketing yammer.
Reply
//////////Reply by Scott Curtis
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 7:09 pm
@Kikkoman, righty-o kikkoman.
You can’t really be unique. You can enjoy the things in the long tail but you’re never the only one
Reply
//////////Reply by authentanick
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
@Scott Curtis, boo hoo
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//////////Reply by carles darwin
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
@Scott Curtis, “Man is descended from a hairy, tailed quadruped, probably arboreal in its habits.”
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might b better than the anco post.
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//////////Reply by tern tabel
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 7:44 pm
@generk witty cmmnt, i agree. best post of 2k10 so far crles
dont know about the name though
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Carles, u need 2 rebrand post-post-irony 4 the new decade. feel like there needs 2 b a word 4 post-post-irony other than post-post-irony. can’t tell if i’m being post-post ironic or not. feel like this is something u should have thought of already.
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Huge fan of the site but this is the first time I’ve been inspired to comment. Great Great Article. Please write more about this subject. I’d read an article about any of the questions you asked above. Keep up the great work.
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//////////Reply by yo
//////////Posted February 8th, 2010 at 1:44 am
@Mike, lolfag
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TL DR
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epic. youre right on every point.
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i feel liberated, like an air lifted Haitian.
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Didn’t read it all, sooo long.
But after seeing the positive comments i guess i will…
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//////////Reply by bilbo
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
@K Mo,
summary: time to stop being pretentious assholes.
and crls, i think what you want to have accomplished can only happen when we stop talking about what you want to have accomplished. just like race will always be an issue until we stop talking about race being an issue.
that shit won’t go away if we’re still bringing it up!
Reply
//////////Reply by Destiny!
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
@bilbo baggins,
I don’t really understand what there is to be “accomplished.” A new name for a ‘new’ type of music? Why does it matter what the new name is?
What if we stopped trying to define ourselves with names? [I'm talking about music, but it fits with race too]
3/4 of these bands all sound the same anyway.
Names are useless. Just enjoy the music instead of being pretentious fucks.
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want 2 b mindie to get the feeling of being kewl and unique but also the feeling of being connected 2 mainstream friends who appreciate + understand my chosen aesthetic
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Waiting for the ternative bro-lectro movement….also waiting to see if the hot little alt-bagel (w perfect alt ass) goes mindie or ternative, and how can I tell w/out creepin her ipod… Don’t want to waste time only to find out she likes KOL/vampy weeks/dubstep
Reply
//////////Reply by adfasdf
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 10:42 am
@cha bro, dubstep isnt maintream
Reply
//////////Reply by anost
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
@adfasdf,
wrong.
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I’m embarrassed to say I like alternative music because then people tell me they love death cab … then I feel snooty. So now I say i like ternative music. Problem solved.
Reply
//////////Reply by V
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 11:07 am
@PayRon, but did you notice when you say “ternative music” out loud that ppl still think you just said “alternative music” and they just didnt hear the “al”. new problem.
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Carles=’game commissioner’
(via nitsuh abebe vampy weekend apologia on tumblr)
http://agrammar.tumblr.com/post/359990238/the-rules-of-the-game-a-fuller-thought-on-j-hopper
Reply
//////////Reply by tern tabel
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 7:46 pm
@stillnessisthememe, felt bad for @arzE :/
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//////////Reply by Blackface Killah
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 10:24 pm
@stillnessisthememe,
That was even better than this excellent Carles post.
Will the post post-irony world be a return to integrity?
I really hope so because music writing nowdays is truly all about one upmanship and it’s sickening. Anybody read the p4k review of Edy Sharpe and Maggy Zero’s? Apparently it was more important for the writer to tell us that Ed Sharpe used to be in a shitty punk band and is therefore posturing as a hippie than to actually review the music. It was egregious even by p4k standards.
Reply
//////////Reply by stillnessisthememe
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 11:43 am
@Blackface Killah, kind of hoping vampy weekend will use their newfound mnstrm cultural capital/’mad bank’ to advance the ‘return to integrity’ with their own version of Apple Records in 0.5-2.75 yrs. would like to see @arze/@matsor/@oiab /@____ (miss u) to promote authentic ethnomusicologists/ternative artists/meaningful but not meaningfulcore singer-songwriters (via rockabye sweet baby james)
Reply
I feel u bro.
I have been feeling the same.
Ternative music is where its at, been, will be.
I knew there was something stirring it the ‘post-indie/mindie’ waters, and that something was ternative music.
<3 u for being insightful every once in 2kyears.
Reply
//////////Reply by HJ
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 8:20 pm
@OhNoOhMy,
say u say me say it for always
thats the way it should b
say u say me say it 2gether
naturally
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god damned unbelievable!
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ternative is the future
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dog
post-indie
click on my name
that is all
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‘ternative’ is a horrendous word.
i think it will definitely catch on.
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//////////Reply by fuck
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 3:53 pm
this blgpost/ ’state f the intrnet union’ is correct and pertinent, but the prime mover term ‘ternative’ is unacceptable, just as ‘mindie’ is too ‘kewtsy/faggy’–greatly preferred ‘maltstream’
‘little bit baffling’ tht carly invented such a bulshit term as his focus–prolly hubris derived from the maltstream acceptance of ‘chillwave’ as a descriptor
feel a lil ‘reneged on’ via the genreshirt’s westcoasty nihilistic treatment of textual signifiers of musicsounds coupled with this ‘topdown selfconscious zeitgeistproducing’
REJECT IRRITATING/UN-APT SIGNIFIERS, YALL
Reply
//////////Reply by fullscale008
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
@fuck, back at Graddie school. but i agree wholeheartedly.
wonder what Mikey Foucault would say about this cluster-fuck
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pretty deep post actually. not sure if i ‘got’ it, but i agree on many of your points about the state of ‘indie’ interacting with mainstream. if i heard someone say outloud they listen to ‘indie’ music, i would laugh. the word ‘indie’ conjures images of weezer and pearl jam, shit my aunt was into 5-20 years ago.
really torn about the fact I only listen to FOTM musical genres like chillwave, bloghouse,8bit, deathcore, emotronic, happy hardcore etc.
def not mainstream, but not alt accepted. I will muse on this ‘ternative’ business as i take a poop. bbl.
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mebs we should dub it turnative since it’s the turn of the decade and the “new indie” takes hold of us…
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//////////Reply by cocksuckingjjew
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 2:01 pm
@spaghetti, werd
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I think MGMT’s next album will be the Swan Song of the Preternative era, rather than Vampy’s for these reasons. Vampy is mindie from the start and MGMT prob wasn’t. MGMT’s new album will be the first self-aware mindie album recognized by everyone at the same time because I don’t know if ppl really ‘h8′ MGMT as much as the Vampybros.
Just trying 2b vulnerable here.
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//////////Reply by meow
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 2:48 pm
@\\\\\, s0 right.
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//////////Reply by jjj
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:43 pm
@\\\\\, ugghmygod.
Vampire Weekend is for ska fans. Once this is understood, so is their success.
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//////////Reply by \\\\\\\\\\
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 10:36 am
@jjj, and maybe ppl who like the ‘more cowbell’ sketch waaay too much.
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im listening to my girls atm
oops
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…and so the punk aesthetic becomes ‘undead’ and the cycle begins anew… just rage against the machinzies yalll
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//////////Reply by \\\\\\\\\\
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 2:04 pm
@daffy, maybe, but it has to be w/o guitars, maybe along the lines of Atari Teenage Riot.
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//////////Reply by daffy
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 2:37 pm
@\\\\\, ur kewt
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//////////Reply by djw
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
@daffy, couldnt agree more… kinda scary/frustrating how our culture recycles itself every 40 or so years…
listening to The Clash atm/before mnstrm mass marketing saftey pins leather bros…
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Feel like we need to enter a post-’era’-era, where we don’t try to categorize music based on arbitrary and meaningless factors that probably ever existed to begin with.
Feeling nostalgic for the times when ‘hipster’ was synonymous with ‘apathy’. Gettin’ real tired of snarky entry-lvl cmmntrs trying to brand themselves by deriding music simply because it becomes the least bit micro-popular.
Just want to be excited ’bout mp3s again.
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perfect post…totally agree. every single person has a different ‘idea’ of what indie music is. they may all be right or they may all be wrong. idk. the fact that we label music at all makes the term ‘indie’ irrelevant.
carles, on your next blog radio show provide some examples of your idea of ternative…i’m intrigued!
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wish i had a longer attn span for this post
ternative era sounds pretty chill
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//////////Reply by aurora
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 3:43 am
@cousins, me too
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IMO indie will die via ‘alt rock’ bands like Kings of Leon continuing to make derivative music, kind of like how 90s metal died via whiny pussies making documentaries in which they bitched a lot. ‘Classic indie’ stations may pop up, which will play nothing but Arcade Fire and Radiohead kind of like how ‘classic rock’ stations just play Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin.
Feel like some bros from New Jersey will start a ‘nu mindie’ movement, which will sound like Vampire Weekend but slower, with more bass, and screaming, and that Owl City alts will gravitate toward it and become pudgy girls in tube tops. The xx will be considered ‘nu mindie.’
Feel like MGMT fits the ternative ‘aesthetic’ but they’re already been ‘doomed’ to being mindie via being ‘lumped in’ with Silversun Pickups in the Grammys.
Can MGMT and AnCo be the first mternative bands? If so, is ternative already dead because more acts will pop up consisting of random bros emulating their popular sounds/aesthetics in order to get rich/famous/alt-pussy?
Is a band like No Age ternative because they have an inaccessible sound/disassociate themselves from ‘poppier’ indie acts even though they appeared on MTV?
Definitely ready to move on past indie. Every time I hear the word I just think of Ben Gibbard’s glasses. But is ternative music really where we want to move? Feel like our ternative heroes are already so well known. Feel like Panda Bear will release an accessible ternative album which everyone will listen to for a week until it gets mad press coverage/appears in a Palm Pixi/iPad commercial, and then AnCo will be the Arcade Fire/Vampire Weekend/The Killers of ternative.
Feel like, if I’m going to invest my time and energy in a bunch of bands, I want it to be bands that I can watch grow/influence each other/develop an identity/sound for a while before they’re identified by Pitchfork/GvB and become heavily blogged about/stagnant. Need to move farther than ternative: Need to start listening to really shitty/experimental bands in hopes that they’ll someday develop a sense of pitch, ex. The Flaming Lips in the 90s. Or stop listening to music altogether.
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//////////Reply by \\\\\\\\\\
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 3:04 pm
@sdj,
‘Ben Gibbard’s Glasses’ is the name of my new ternative sound project. I’m looking for someone chill who can play a theramin if u want to join.
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//////////Reply by polecat
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 3:38 pm
@\\\\\, I lol’d
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//////////Reply by anonymoose
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
@polecat, its funny MGMT ’started out as a joke’
in fashion forecasting class today one of our powerpoint slide was titled “MEMES”
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//////////Reply by aurora
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 3:47 am
@brittany, haha hey i gotta take fashion forecasting later in the future
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I will listen to ternative-wave bands because they will trick mnstrmers into thinking they are ’shittie,’ but we will secretly know they are good.
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im really confused..
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glad you made this post. i was beginning to feel lame liking indie. time for a change on the brand. very insightful. hope to see more on the evolution of ternative.
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ternative = alternative – (al)?
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//////////Reply by EF
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm
@brian, No shit.
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//////////Reply by shotshotshotshots
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 8:48 pm
@brian, u just blew my mind bro
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Gotta say crls, I agree with every point you have made in this post.
I agree that ternitive is a term that needs to be coined in reference to non-mainstream indie bands that are genuine and not corporately manufactured but I don’t think the term will ever catch on. I hope for the love of God that it does.
Good luck Carles.
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can i still listen to the feist?
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//////////Reply by sdj
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 4:11 pm
@white blipster,
No man.
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//////////Reply by jjj
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:46 pm
@white blipster, on tuesdays. during your half hour unpaid lunch break.
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a lot of ternative is a recessionary American spin on what avant garde Europeans and American blacks have been doing for a long long time. Look at the list of thank you’s inside the record sleeve on Person Pitch! Animal Collective and post-indie would not exist without mnml, techno, house, dub, ethno music, and hiphop. What Carles is calling ternative might just be the anglophonic musical “altermodernity” or whatever.
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//////////Reply by doodahdoodoo
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 7:36 pm
@andrew, “Look at the list of thank you’s inside the record sleeve on Person Pitch!”
would involve physically buying said record sleeve
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//////////Reply by andrew
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 11:01 pm
@doodahdoodoo
you don’t have a turntable?
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“Album is dead”
Album is not dead bc women cannot compile tracklists.
As women will 1day rule the world (due to some prognostics), album is the future.
Our legacy of tracklists will be misunderstood, ridiculled upon and eventually forgotten by women of the far future.
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feel like mindie is the best way 2 go [via imagined 'street cred' + mnstrm 'tits']
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vry accurate reflection of the state of the muzik wrld. thnks carles.
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carles, i think you might have just coined another future widely used term
not sure about the level of irony of this post, but i could see myself actually using it in srs ways as opposed to chillwave, which was just fun to make ironic beachweedgothdemonsurfhazecomber jokes with
yr a pro at branding, bro
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Looks like Mr. Hipsterrunoff is trying to feed a new genre to the wannabe hipster kids. What’s next? fruit of the loop ternative fit tighty whities?
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//////////Reply by Steve-0
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 5:12 pm
I just wanna add…I did agree with your evaluation of indie rock.
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im the most ternative i turn heads and shit
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feel like carles was ‘trying’ to coin a new term here.
also feel like he’s gonna succeed.
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“Indie” will always live on, but will evolve into “ternative”, regarding the type of music produced. Gorilla vs. Bear is the definitive source for finding new “ternative” music (as opposed to Pitchfork, a bastion of the early-mid 2k0’s).
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//////////Reply by shotshotshotshots
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 8:56 pm
@funky_rutabaga, ^ executive summary of the post. <3
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good post crls… sorta feel like short round visiting indie jones in a nursing home
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Do you still do that thing for sirius xm? I don’t think their gonna give up all ‘Indie music’.
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saw some girl in my school today saying she was indie to some group of mnstrmers she wuz trying to impress. it broke my heart. and scared me.
anyway.. i agree. i feel so different now… like people will soon be able to relate to me.
it worries me, Carles.
please guide me in the right direction
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//////////Reply by SP
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 8:18 pm
@Leslie,
You’re a @#$& loser.
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yr fucking gay carles, in this culture of immediacy and no delineation(sp?) b/w alt & mainstream the only choice is to swing the complete other way & regress technologically, or maybe not, maybe we’re all gay, maybe were all gonna die, maybe u should just listen to what sounds kool 2 u, maybe this all means nothing, nothing is real, god is a nigger, get money
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//////////Reply by a wet burrito (yum)
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 8:59 pm
@a wet nigga, ur a gay racist
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//////////Reply by jjj
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:51 pm
@a wet burrito (yum), ur a homophobic cunt.
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//////////Reply by Snookie
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 10:40 am
@jjj, ur a misogynistic cripple
listen, i know this is satire and stuff, but this is the first post that really struck a chord with me in terms of how out of touch with “indie” culture you are, carles.
this is more of a complete misunderstanding than intelligent satire. vampire weekend was always “indie-for-the-masses.” but the label is still indie. the secret? they knew a publicist. that’s all. you dont need to invent a new term to justify an indie band’s success. it happens. it wont change music or our culture. we should just be happy that a band that we wanted to do well is doing well.
i compare vampy weekend to zach galifianakis. same thing. they’ve been around. done high profile stuff, but still remained under-the-radar. then they did something really right. and now everyone knows them.
i have a bigger issue with the worship of anco. and the whole idea of “post-anco.” that’s wrong. yes, critics loved them, but mnstrmrs only heard of them through the indie kid in their Art History class and never listened to them. are they universally liked by the indie crowd? not even.
we’re not obsessed with non-success. i’d say a lot of us support success. we just like music. more specifically, we like new and exciting music. we like sounds. it’s not a lifestyle, it’s the music. it’s just good music.
we’re not the character of carles.
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//////////Reply by woodbro wilson
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:05 pm
@woodbro wilson, and to clarify, i’m simply saying that indie music being popular isn’t something true hipsters should worry about. it happens time and time again. im mad that carles is defining hipsters by being scared about the future of indie. the future of indie is the same as it ever was: people liking under-the-radar music.
the existential quandaries that carles brings up still old satirical truth. we’re hipsters. we laff at ourselves. we know how ‘lame’ we are. but indie music will always be indie music no matter how well vampy weekend did last week.
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//////////Reply by James Monbro
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 10:49 pm
@woodbro wilson, i’m pretty sure the impetus of the article was this:
http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2010/01/is-indie-dead.html
not vampy weekend.
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//////////Reply by HJ
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 11:53 pm
@James Monbro,
good werk colombro
//////////Reply by woodbro wilson
//////////Posted February 7th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
@James Monbro,
read it. changed mind. this post fucking nailed it.
//////////Reply by sdj
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 10:53 pm
@woodbro wilson,
Independent music will always be independent by definition, yes, but we’re using indie here as the industry buzzword that it’s become, and I think you’re confusing the two meanings.
I think that with the mainstream success of an act, people will be drawn to those media sources that aggregate similar music. That is, Pitchfork, GvB, HypeM, etc… And as those outlets grow in popularity, so will the music that they are associated with, until what we’re left with is something very much not under-the-rader, but a CD/MP3 that people pick up at the same time as a Kelly Clarkson product without a hint of irony. Something like how rock music became popular and Rolling Stone grew with it, and now rock music is dead and Rolling Stone is an ad-bloated rag of paper with fourth-grade-reading-level political commentary interspersed with caricatures of Kanye West in shutter shades.
So the “indie” sound/aesthetic seems in danger of going the way of rock/punk/metal and with it the media network that supports it. And more importantly, the community that’s built around it. And this is why what Charles says is interesting to me: Instead of going and buying some khakis and getting a job, or instead of beating this dead horse, or instead of waiting for some dudes to pull some Fugazi shit, there’s another option: to just all, as a community, abandon what we’ve built and move on to the next thing.
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//////////Reply by ternative=riotgrlll
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 8:30 am
@sdj,
you just inspired me to do some Fugazi shit
5 tickets and no merch y’all
integrity
//////////Reply by \\\\\\\\\\
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:14 pm
@woodbro wilson, take back the comparing Zachbro to Vampy. More apropos would be Sasha Baron Cohen (via Cambridge/Columbia). Zach Galafanakais may be more gimmicky, like Of Monty or something bc maintreamers din understand him until one day (Hangover) and now they like him, and David Cross would be like Death Cab or The Strokes.
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//////////Reply by woodbro wilson
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 9:32 pm
@\\\\\, i can dig it. boratbro is actually a better comparison. everyone knew about ali g, but didnt watch it. but they were informed. then borat came. everyone was a fan. zachbro’s always been out there but for some reason, only hipsters knew and aprecciated him. now its frustrating to hear about him since no one knows him from the stand-up. they just call him ‘alan.’ that’s a hipster woe if ever there was one.
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//////////Reply by chilisfan
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
@woodbro wilson, zachbro is kind of like modest mouse in that sense. every hipster knows that lonesome crowded west is ‘frickin sweet bro’ but every mnstrmr in america knew ‘float on’ back in 2k6. those people would never even want to listen to tiny cityz made of ashes or whatev, but ‘good news for ppl’ was an accesible album that even my dad would like.
most people don’t like to be challenged & galifianakis’ stand-up is challenging. speaking as some one who actually does comedy, he is a comic’s comic.
i think that’s why the alt community has so aligned itself with anco/deerhunter/fucked up/etc. those bands are challenging. my mom would never like animal collective, but she would dig vampy weekend or phoenix or arcade fire for sure.
accessibility is the issue.
//////////Reply by a wet nigga
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 12:03 am
@woodbro wilson, god damn bro, u are like teh noam chompsky of indie
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//////////Reply by woodbro wilson
//////////Posted February 7th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
@a wet nigga, thnx nigga.
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//////////Reply by oliviar
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 12:27 am
@woodbro wilson, u took this wwwwwwwwway 2 srs bro :/
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//////////Reply by Abroham Lincoln
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 12:42 am
@woodbro wilson, Bro. Kind of excited that the theoretical ‘lil tweenybopper bitch’ might feel the impulse to consume the newest Ke$ha CD but also decide 2 put I Think Ur A Contra/New Moon OST in the very same Wal-Mart shopping cart. Not because the Vampy Weekbros are great (they aight), but bc maybe she will see the word ‘indie’ on their wikipedia page and go on to discover other, better music, buy an outfit from AmAppy, throw out her Uggz bootz for a pair of Converses bought at her local thrift store, and start reading HRo.
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//////////Reply by djstepdadjeans
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 10:43 am
@Abroham Lincoln, add kute bangs and i’d be all over it
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//////////Reply by -_-_-_
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
@woodbro wilson, “it’s not a lifestyle, it’s the music.”
who the fuck do you think you are?
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//////////Reply by memester
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
@woodbro wilson,
are we ready for the vampy weekend market index?
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tl;tmmm [too much meow meow] i think that the ternative manifesto needs to be a lil clearer i am still worried about indie-proofing my new pitched down vinyl sample band
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let’s stop putting everything into little boxes on the hillside and just enjoy music for music.
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let’s stop putting everything into little boxes on the hillside and just enjoy music for music.
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//////////Reply by HJ
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 11:47 pm
@emma,
déjà vu
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//////////Reply by brobro
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 12:26 am
@emma, ur comment is so ‘4ever ago.’ Do u feel boxed into irrelevancy due to the title of a lumberjack’s record?
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//////////Reply by teh
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
@emma, but insecure ppl ‘need something to relate to’. they can’t be out there all alone, digesting music in a vacuum and spitting out valid objective criticism/praise. that’s too lonely/hard. most ppl ‘dont really know music/art very well’, and that would put tastemakers out of work.
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Crles, don’t act like you care about ne of this. U knew in 2k7 u would never make it as a music blog and turned it into snarky culture commentary blog.
but das okay w/ me.
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//////////Reply by Acid Midget
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 11:59 pm
@jjj, you have just made crls look like the biggest piece of ______.
Totally makes sense why HRhOe is so snarky.
thk u.
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//////////Reply by memester
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
@jjj,
I “like” this
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//////////Reply by apreludes
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
@jjj, hehehehehehehe
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kids this was so meaningful.
Let’s jus get with the rest of the world. Drop the fucking scene, and listen to dance music. Where bros don’t even know the names of tracks
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//////////Reply by Destiny!
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
@HOMOSAPIEN_FUCK, YEAH.
I agree completely.
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CRLS, I enjoy your theory. The word ‘indie’ is a flimsy designation, even more flimsy than ‘punk’ or ‘lo-fi’, and I am glad to cast it aside.
Looking forward to new ternative blogs stepping-up in 2k10. Feel like there will be a serious power-shift in the blogosphere.
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Carles, you make ‘indie/underground’ culture just distasteful. Lets just listen to good music and let it fucking be.
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Ternative ere sounds good enough
I dont think ternative will catch on, but the idea always be in our hearts? like i understand what your saying but once ternative catches on everything from that point on will be post-ternative.
It could very well go mainstream
Do ternative websites have a ‘ceiling’? yes BANDwitch, get it? was a pun
Who will be the biggest mindie band of the next decade? MGMT? Kings of Leon?
mindie is def the new bro rock. or super entry level ternative that has only begun thier journey to being authintic.I hate music wrting that uses the term “crunchy guitar riffs” wtf does that even mean?
mega-indie blog/websites are lame
good business+content focus strategy for a formerly indie blog in the 2k10 decade would be to sell to rupert murdoch before he catches on to the ternative movement.
Fav band? youve never heard of them…
What’s ur fave music website? Im not n2 that sort of thing
my brain/heart feel refreshed and clensed now that I have moved beyond the indie era
alternative rock is whateves
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I’ve been referring to what you call “ternative” as “inter” music. it seems to fit Animal Collective, and just about every short-lived, sinlge mp3-life-span band that i like, seeing that there is no marked scene or locale that the music is a result of, and is a success purely because of the internet. Ternative may work just the same. Maybe I’ll leave the blogging to you next time.
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//////////Reply by pookie
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 12:03 am
@late, liking this, but when i read ‘inter’, i wanted to say ‘pol’.
u say ‘inter’, i say ‘pol’, ‘inter’ ‘pol’, ‘interpol’
this wuz a good try, carles, & sum good chin rubbing/thought/hmmm? occurred, but still feeling insecure/lost/confused by ‘10.
will revisit mid-febs or somesuch.
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hoping this was new character ‘earnestBro’
otherwise hipsterrunoff is dead to me
all u commenters r fggts
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//////////Reply by Nipslip
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
@anonyt, h8 u anonytbro
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We need to stop trying to adapt!!!!
we’re too old for that shit. We need to go down with the ‘mindie’ ship. How is carles supposed to be the leader of ternative when hes already majorly associated with ‘indie culture’ which is the antithesis of ternative. indie will continue to snatch up every good sound that comes out. Ternative will be the music our kids love and that we despise. WE NEED TO EXCEPT THAT WE’RE PART OF THIS INCREDIBLY INSECURE GENERATION
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//////////Reply by fatboy
//////////Posted February 3rd, 2010 at 11:13 pm
@Loveisreal, ternative will sound like nu metal or something….no macbooks, no kewt entry levelers, no music blogs. doesnt sound like much fun
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//////////Reply by women's studies 101
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
@Loveisreal,
we need to except
we need to except
we need to except
except
except
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?
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2 get the most pertinent patterns on ur walls, simply throw shit at ur fan
Also, excellent post, but this could be older than u think (via flamingolips)
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//////////Reply by jjj
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 12:03 am
@MarthaStewie, lips aflame.
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good grief…. now i have to reinvent myself? how does a ‘ternative’ bro even dress?
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//////////Reply by Snookie
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 11:21 am
@catspajamas,
Tyvek® Jumpsuits
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opinions will never define the “musical periodic table of elements”… pocahontas-core is wut i call it but thats me..wondering if carles “true thoughts” have crossed over into his “satire”
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Have you noticed Ryan on The Office has been turning indie–he’s been wearing plaid, thick frame glasses and is uber into photography. Its hilare.
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//////////Reply by Y
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
@wholefoodz,
my womans and i were having this conversation a week ago.
im pretty sure he either lives in his closice or rides his fixed gear there.
did you see the episode when hipster runoff was on his macbook air in the background
??
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//////////Reply by wholefoodz
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
@Y, No i didn’t notice! funnyfunny
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this post was soooo0 boring!!!
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Gonna listen to AnCo 4eva.
Gonna par-T 4eva.
Gonna ‘live life’ 4eva.
Gonna minimise this window of porn now.
AAAAHHHHHHHH.
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Yall. Is HRo an indie blog or a ternative-wave blog? Feel confused.
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Indie is dead. Everything is essentially the same now. I mean, there’s a wall in terms of fashion and ideals between “indie” and “the mainstream” but in terms of music it’s all crossed over. Noise rock is the “only way”.
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thnx 4 making a good post again crls. ur a good blog. we all <3 yall.
will post a relevant chilisfan cmmnt tomorrow. tonight i am FUCKED UP on valium and nyquil and marijuana. wtf.
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//////////Reply by sOO zany name
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 7:05 am
@chilisfan, + MEOW MEOW?
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//////////Reply by Z Eddy
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
@chilisfan, hawt
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‘/humans’, too funny. don’t think any real ternative bros would wear flip-flops unless they were ‘gonzo indie’/southern like willy oldham. super dense post, y’all, miles beyond p-fork in terms of ’self-awareness’. H8 the ‘Carles, let it be, just listen to music’ bros. Better to ’smoke a bowl’, pop in a chillwave mp3, and just see what comes out a la byron wilson back in the mid-to-l8 1960s..
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//////////Reply by ternative=riotgrlll
//////////Posted February 4th, 2010 at 8:38 am
@Luzinski, what the fuck is wrong with flip flops
toes jst want to be free
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‘Does ur brain/heart feel free now that u have moved beyond the indie era?’
sorta.
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v interesting
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Twiter will die. Its sometimes used to get “mad hits” by the youtube/famous crowd. The main ppl who use it are old who think they are keeping up with the younger crowd, but they arent. I think/hope that blogs replace twiter/fbook/myspace. It is a richer communication between ppl on the net. blogs will filter out all the insignificant shit like, “so ready for lost tonight.” Which i was, but who truly cares. Only the friends I see daily, and they already know im excited. On a blog what is truly significant to a person comes out. And that interaction is on an entirely different level than the social networks. I also stray away from discussing bands in a social setting because it always alienates someone. @woodbrowilson im in the same boat with you. If i like a band/artist/song i dont care how its characterized. music is about personal enjoyment. I dont know why but I love that Big and Rich song “save a Horse, Ride a cowboy” and I dont care what you all think of me for it. At the end of the day im still gonna enjoy that song.
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//////////Reply by apreludes
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
@Jordan, i dunno bro, i don’t think the majority of ppl using the internet (tweens, moms, dads, tween moms, bros) care enough or have enough creative drive to find ‘relevant stories’ or noteworthy pictures and have a blog. blogs are great, and tumblr probably gives me the most enjoyment i’ve ever had from a website, but the majority of the internet just goes on to plain, vanilla socialize, no memes or snark involved.
feel like blogging will always be a somewhat niche endeavour
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as much as I appreciate this meaningful post, it really did not say much beyond this:
-’indie’ has become corporate and is no longer ‘cool’/'relevant’/'authentic’.
-it is time for a new trend for coolsters/hipsters/music freaks, etc. to latch on to and start the cycle all over again.
-the presence of the product cycle and our compliant participation should be more obvious to everyone by now.
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//////////Reply by antónio
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 11:36 am
@white blipster, BE.UR.OWN.TREND
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ternative
everything will always be short lived, everyone who does their best to be unique is a nonconformist ,=why indie=dead its gone mainstream. But i think ppl can manage to limit use of ternative and really saving it for ‘what stands out’ and what ‘deserves it’, that would b nice, agreeing with what everone else has said. But listen to what you agree with, hop in a mosh pit
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whoa
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jesus
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Also, ‘Indie’ has been a dirty word for years… maybe stop paying so much attention to ‘new music’. Seems that the focus here is to be ‘unique” in taste sensibility and there are more ways to do it than keeping up with ‘the best of what’s new’. And, sample based music seems hella cheap.
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I think ternative has no lyrics. Can I be ternative? Check out my songz http://www.myspace.com/jamestuckermusic
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New Wakarusa Artisits Announced – click for full line-up!
social.memberemail.com
* Widespread Panic * STS9 * Umphrey’s McGee * The Disco Biscuits * The Black Keys * Slightly Stoopid * John Butler Trio * Blues Traveler * Dweezil Zappa Plays Zappa * Robert Randolph and the Family Band …
the first ternative festival
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i feel like we’re being weaned off hro with the alt report.
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I christen your creation of the ternative genre
with a ternative GvsB
http://keyboardsisdrunk.blogspot.com/
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ternative is the stupidest word ever
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//////////Reply by antónio
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 11:33 am
@tonez, *whisper* i think thats the point!!
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feeling unsure about whether or not i care about the future of alt. graduating from liberal arts college this spring. think it might be time to trade in my child pred glasses for something ‘a lil more grown up.’ will probably always ‘love the music’ but think i may be outgrowing the scene. might get a ‘day job’ and keep working on my ‘indie inspired one woman show’ but will probably just ‘work at the bank’ and ’settle down with my disappointing boyfriend’ to have some ‘rugratz’
not sure
so confused
plz help yall
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//////////Reply by teh
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
@chilisfan, As an olde dude, it’s not an all or nothing type of deal. Just do something that is meaningful to you w.r.t. your philosophy on life. Nothing more, nothing less.
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can’t believe it’s been 1 year since ‘my girls’ & ‘bro sport’ hit the ‘airwaves’ of sirius xmu.
(still) miss u ‘09
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I’m just seeking an authentic experience, one co-experienced by elitists like me that condemn mass enjoyment of practically anything. I know this sounds like a bad thing, but it’s true. Just want that authenticity. Whenever I read one of these posts, I feel like it’s totally hopeless :( Therefore, I embrace this concept of segmenting authentic and non-corporate indie music into its own category- but I think there’s a better name out there somewhere. But Crls is right: Indie is a dead word. The simple fact that everyone knows what the word means, even if a bit confusedly, marks its horrific transformation into mainstream culture. RIP ‘indie’
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//////////Reply by antónio
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 11:32 am
@veryverysad,
do you not think, that when ‘elitism’ ceases to be about liking the ~best~ thing, becoming instead a matter of liking a different thing, for the sake of difference, don’t you think it’s like a rubbish thing then
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//////////Reply by teh
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
@antónio, But the ~best~ thing can never be really determined objectively. And even if it could, what we consider the best now will inevitably change with the times. How can we judge which albums will age gracefully? I’ve just chosen to not take music so seriously. I know the types of music I like is a very complex product of my mood + cultural vibe of the times + my own sense of authenticity + other things. There’s no point in anything other than carving out my own taste as a human being + doing work that I consider meaningful + constructing my own life’s philosophy (obviously these things are going to be influenced, if even slightly, by others).
This blog post isn’t a particularly new thing to anyone that knows their history. People are STILL cashing in on the aesthetic created by the culture of the 60s.
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Whoa! Conceptual post, dude.
But uhhh, I don’t ‘get it.’
The concept is ‘too complicated’ for me to ‘process.’ Also, I didn’t read the whole post because I have a very short attention span.
Can yall sum up the concept in ~2-3 sentences/a graph/a chart/a Venn diagram?
Don’t think I’m ’smart enough’ to read HRO.
Can you be an ‘authentic’ ‘ternative’ bro AND kind of ‘dense’?
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i don’t know guys this post is p. boring imo
i don’t even know what carles is talking about
every reasonable/truly fashionable person has been bored/put off by anco/’alt’ douches since, like, ever
i think it behooves us to asdf&%$*
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tell you the truth tho!!!!! kewt indie girls don’t do nothing for me anymore p. much cuz u know they’re all just, like, lil prissy airheads, mostly, rather
here’s hoping for the first crop of Ternative Babes!!
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Why do so many of the commenters here copy Carles’ writing style? Do you have your own identity, or do indie fans tend to co-opt the style of others and latch on to the trends of the moment, rather than defining themselves as individuals?
Mainstreamers often mock alternative types because they assert their uniqueness while adhering religiously to the clothing/music/lifestyle trends that typify their alternative genre. But no places confirms the hipster herd mentality better than the hipsterrunoff comment boards.
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//////////Reply by kevbro
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
@marcus, lol.
dam u rele dum nigga
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//////////Reply by teh
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
@marcus, we r all crles, dont u get it?
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//////////Reply by \\\\\\\\\\
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
@marcus, entry-levelrs r so keut
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//////////Reply by apreludes
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
@marcus, u mad
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#currently listening to “For Reverend Green”- Animal Co.
Yo C-dawg! what’s the aesthetic for a ternative bro?
jus tryin to get my ‘ternative’ on, b4 the mnstrmrs come rape the scene with the ‘long cash stack dick of the m.a.n.’
was hoping p4k-core would b the next big thing.
would allow me to enjoy grime/dub, noise, ambient, ironic mnstrm hip-hop, and indie rock.
but fucc it, times change. time to move on!
like the soldier of the underground scene, unity is not a 4letter word y’all
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//////////Reply by Z Eddy
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
@kevbro,
probably my favorite animal collective sawng,
the screaming the hottest thing ive heard in whatever genre of music they are considered. Unique
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//////////Reply by \\\\\\\\\\
//////////Posted February 5th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
@kevbro,
A haiku-
its funny that my
gf h8’s that mp3:
opposites attract
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Fuck that shit, grunge is just around the corner
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so wierd how music-internet-my life has changed. i remember when i moved to seattle in 2k5 and went to hella indie rock shows. (autolux, metric, kaiser cheifs, bloc party, ) lots more. what happened? i just turned 30 gettin old jigga what!?
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//////////Reply by james
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 3:50 am
@Mason, autolux <3
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ternative is soooooo 3 days ago
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OMG this comes exactly when I needed it.. indie is totally loosing it’s propouse.. today i found a “wikihow” how to be an indie girl and i thought this is it, this is the bottom.
i’ll keep an eye on ternative! maybe we can reach the golds we couldn’t with indie. stand up from the hype, the mainstreem, and all this superficial shite
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//////////Reply by women's studies 101
//////////Posted February 12th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
@Natt, http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-dress-like-scene-girl-219388/
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I liked how you stopped being ironic for a sec because you are passionate about the decline of a genre you love, and do a supreme service in educating the ‘altmasses’ about the evident truth of ‘indie’ music post 2k10. However, it seems you realized you were still writing on HR and not just talking to your friends and you had to add the whole ‘ternative’ thing, which somewhat kept your point alive but overall deteriorated a good piece. Maybe it’s time to start a serious blog sort of thing? You have the potential. but then again, I’d be the only ternative guy reading it.
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//////////Reply by -_-_-_
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
@TernativeDude, n00b
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I came on to hrunoff today for the firs time since 2k8 when you were culturally relevant. Depsite loving this write up, agreeing wholeheartedly and feeling your pain, I got the impression that you finally revealed your humdrum identity. and you sneaky texan, you did. I read your mind.
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//////////Reply by carles
//////////Posted February 6th, 2010 at 4:44 am
@Existential Crisis?,
well, its about time i did,
www . ternative music . com
(no spaces in the website URL above)
enjoy
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This is a really insightful post. There’s so much good stuff in here, I wish I could reply to it all.
A lot of replies seem hesitant about the ethics of even defining this new “movement”. Regardless of whether or not a definition will necessarily exclude creativity or serve as a pretentious exclusionary signifier, someone else trying to access such a movement will not hesitate to define it, brand it, exploit it – and they will do this on their own terms in ways that will denigrate it. So I think “we” have an interest in attaching a label to this, because it’s fruition is inevitable. We have a chance to define this ourselves, and because of the interwebs and blogs like these, it’s possible that this definition can, at least in its inception, be exclusively defined by peeps like ourselves.
A few other thoughts:
1) It seems what’s needed is a general conceptual framework that will limit “ternative” in scope, but also allow plenty of room for creative freedom to flourish within. It might be helpful not to think of ternative as replacing indie or a subgenre of indie. Just like indie did not replace alternative, nor is it really a subgenre of alternative, ternative should be considered a wholly separate concept from indie.
2) Nevertheless, an act should be able to traverse the two categories smoothly and not be criticized.
3) I think you’re right that this will be mostly sample based, so a growing presence of hip hop/r & b inspired artists must be accommodated for.
4) Trust is important. Recommendations will trump reviews. An act’s last album/mp3/religious background/political makeup/shitty past in another band should have little to no relevance for the aesthetic integrity of its music.
5) Pitchfork is not allowed to be ternative.
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lame
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i don’t think it will catch on because the definition is too fucking confusing. When people started using the term indie it was a simple definition.
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MUSIC IS A MEME
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Evolving beyond ‘daily posts’: The Era of Weekly Posts
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Dear Carlitos,
You seem like you are going through a pretty tough identity crisis. It’s ok though, because you are in your early twenties and that is when people “learn who they really are”. The new “cool” is not going to be a set of tastes to which one can adhere. The new “cool” from 2k10 onward is to establish a self defining canon of music and literature (preferably all produced before year 2000). I think it would be good for you to stop looking for “whats new” and “whats hot” and to start looking into the past for the meaningful and beautiful things that you may have passed by. Start by ridding yourself of all your culturally imposed prejudices…start listening to music that you never gave a chance, but decided you didn’t like anyway. Start reading books! Smart and tasteful is the new “authentic”. Carlitos, I hope you can learn to rely on your own ability to discern which music will make you happy.
I hope this didn’t sound to condescending, it is just something I have learned in the past year. I used to be Carles, now I am growing up. It’s time for all Carles’s out there to start taking things seriously, to start appreciating things for which one can only acquire a taste with time and age and experience. The Carles generation is slowly becoming adults, and I think that we will eventually begin to reestablish the “culturally educated” young people demographic that existed when our parents were in college- when there was no such thing as “the underground scene” of music. It’s time to start appreciating things that we may have previously been too impatient or immature to “understand”.
I hope this makes sense.
Yours,
the Budding Intellectuals
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I hope me and my bros can start my scene’s 1st ternative cover band
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so r u sayin dat da term ‘alt’ is irelevent now dat ‘alternative’ has become ‘ternative’? perhaps we shud call ppl ‘terns’ insted of ‘alts’ lol
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When I want a new song, I type ______(name of song) + mp3 into google n I get a blog. The song is free! Does anyone do this?
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Good read. Let’s kill indie. It started out as a definition (anything not popular) and became a lifestyle (fucking brand). Authenticity …. Hell, bands and their fans are just punching different buttons for the sake of their brand instead of any independent thought.
If you tell people you have guilty pleasures, you are hipster, poser and in honor of J.D. Salinger – a PHONY. Just man up to your passions.
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It’s time for new ideas. Invent all the new labels and nuances you want to try to make yourself feel that you and your tastes are not mainstream, but you’re still adhering to the same old defunct “indie” formula, which is now mainstream, and wondering why you’re coming up short on authenticity, originality, and obscurity.
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Me and my friend Jake blog the Shanghai underground scene. It’s easy to escape all the stuff you write about.
There is no industry here, only a community based city wide scene. So blogging it is just adding to the community and providing access.
It’s just talking about bands and venue in a community and supporting each other.
There’s no option ‘cept being independent here, so that’s it.
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I have heard about this site before but this is the first time I have paid a visit. You make some really good points while being funny. Based on some comments I think that some people don’t get sarcasm/take everything a little too seriously. Which may be part of the overall problem; taking things too seriously. Also part of the problem, people who identify their ENTIRE personality through the art created by other people.
We just started our site in Jan. and have never really thought about the future of music blogging or whatnot. The goal was just to remain earnest and share things we like with our friends and others. Not based around the perception of what we are blogging about.
Cool site here. Will return for more.
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